Friday, January 15, 2010


If comparing the immoral nature of serious crimes such as pedophilia and murder with homosexuality would, in the end, lead one to abandon immoral homosexual conduct and find peace, joy and love, in a straight life, then that act of comparison is worth the effort many times over.

I came across this comment today. This person is trying to defend an LDS person's comparison of homosexuality to pedophilia, bestiality, murder, and rape. Seriously?! Seriously?!???!! No matter how True Blue LDS you are, how is there any way you could defend this? This makes me livid! And no, this guy is not only defending the theoretical comparison of these sins, he is defending saying these things to real, living, breathing, feeling gay people, in order to help them decide not to be gay. And the worst part is, he insists that this is done out of LOVE. Love!!

This is not the place to pick apart the guy's (il)logic. I could go on and on about that. I am just here to discuss my gut reaction to it. I want to scream and rant and shout and explain and convince until I am blue in the face. Yet I can't, because that will destroy me.

Some people can have these discussions and let it roll off them. I can't do that. I used to 'debate' and 'discuss' (argue) on the internet every day. Just ask Chandelle (I am guessing we argued about nutrition and/or the Church). I was miserable. I got angry online and it carried right over to my family life. I take things way too personally and am unable to stay dispassionate and stick to logical arguments. When I see comments like this, I want to respond to be supportive of those who may be deeply hurt by reading the vitriol, but I just end up looking like a ranting lunatic in the end. In the last three months, I've engaged in probably 3 'discussions' that went beyond 'friendly'. And I just can't do it. I don't know if the rest of my life is so out of order that getting involved in these debates sends me over the edge or what, but I can't do it right now.

What do you do? Do you stay silent and let those terrible disgusting words sit unchallenged?


Marly said...

I don't know, I think I may stay silent mostly because I also take things too personal, but I might also say something like "you know, that is just rude and not called for" and then leave it at that. arguing with someone will probably not change their mind but you can at least inform them that their comment it rude since they think its from love :p

alisaterry said...

Well, my typical comment to other Mormons is that if it isn't doctrine, then we have no businesses going beyond the mark.

The political reality is that what goes on between 2 consenting adults is very different than what goes on when it involves a child or unwilling person, and those are definitely NOT the same.

Katie said...

I like that idea Marly -- to acknowledge it but not get involved. When I try to do that though, I usually can't help keeping the snark out of it though, so it doesn't work too well :-)

Alisa - Well, technically, the basic idea of his rant is doctrine (that homosexuality is a sin for LDS). But the idea that we should inform people of their sins isn't doctrine, is it?

alisaterry said...

or assume one person's sin is more severe than another. The only unforgiveable sin is murder in cold blood of an innocent person. Everything else can be forgiven and overcome. So beyond that, anything that separates us from God is bad, and the only difference between members of the church is that we all sin differently.

I'm not aware of any doctrine that says homosexuality is the same as rape. If he's going to go old testament, then he has to acknowledge it's also rape to eat bacon or talk back to your parents.

Jenny said...

This is why you need to buy a motorcycle......because when you get upset over stuff like this you can just ride really really fast! Once you're over 135 mph you really dont have the capability to think about both staying on the road and the same stuff you're upset about. Especially if there is traffic in your way!

Katie said...

Yeah, I think it's awesome how only 1 prohibition out of Leviticus is still followed, while all the others in the exact same chapter are completely ignored.

Jenny - that's good to know :-D Now we'd both better hope that Mom never sees this!

Chandelle said...

I used to get really horribly sucked in to those conversations. I don't think we argued about religion, Katie, but we whooped it up about nutrition big-time! Isn't it funny that, all these years later, you're kind of heading in my direction and I'm kind of heading in yours, and we'll both probably end up in the middle?

I have found it easier to back off a bit. What happened to me was I got BURNED OUT like you wouldn't believe, debating Prop. 8 at fMh and elsewhere. I just could not argue anymore. I did a lifetime of arguing and crying and stressing over Prop. 8 and finally I was just DONE. I still get "het up" but I'm generally pretty successful at keeping it to myself (venting on Jeremy, actually, bless his diplomatic heart). I do a lot more sighing and throwing my hands up in the air than outright fighting and arguing and trying to bully people into agreeing with me. I try to stay rational, on-point, and avoid ad hominem attacks, none of which come naturally to me. But I probably took ten years off my life fighting about Prop. 8 and it was all for NOTHING. So it's worth it to keep studying the skills of diplomacy.

GoddessofBirth said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
GoddessofBirth said...

Yeah, that totally pisses me off, too. Usually what happens with me is that I try to ignore it, and then I stew about it for days until I get completely steamed and rip someone's head off. So, I probably don't have any help for you;)

Katie said...

"we'll both probably end up in the middle?"

Yes, that's definitely true! This is a concept that I have been thinking about a lot lately, for all areas of my life. I am so drawn to extremes!

And I agree about being done. I don't know that I've ever argued anything enough to use up a lifetime of arguing, but after I get involved in one of these discussions, I feel so tired and worn out!

Shannon - that's not good :-D That's how I feel when I engage. It I just ignore it, I usually forget about it completely quite quickly. I think that's just a symptom of information overload though - if I don't keep something right in my sights, I forget about it because of all the other information crowding it out.

Nemmer said...

That post makes me want to cry, so I'm no help either. Hits too close for me. I generally get too stressed trying to engage in online (or any) debates, too, so I know how you feel.